A Mother
Coming from a musical background myself, I found the actions and decisions of the concert committee to be totally ridiculous and unethical, so I very much sympathized with Mrs. Kearney, as abrasive as she was. She was stuck in a way that was a bit different from the main characters of other stories in Dubliners. Despite her frantic actions to try to get payment for her daughter’s performance, she could not get what she needed because she acted in a non-lady-like way. Being a woman (in Ireland in the early 20th century) was what made her powerless. Ironically, her husband, who she brought to support her, didn’t seem to do anything that influenced the committee either way. Sadly, the daughter was at the whim of her helpless parents, and all future concert engagements in Dublin were cut off for her because of them. One can only hope that that would motivate her to get out of Dublin….
Grace
The Grace of God, perhaps? (Or could “grace” be a mockery of the way Mr. Kernan descends a flight of stairs??) This story captured my attention from the first sentence, but the action seemed to slow down quite a bit once I learned who Mr. Kernan was. Oh well. As the story unfolds, it is clear that Mr. Kernan is a paralyzed character, beyond the fact that he becomes an invalid after falling down the stairs in a drunken stupor. Mr. Kernan, the helpless idiot that he is, is relatively content with his life the way it is, or at least is unmotivated to truly change his less-than-desirable behaviors. No doubt his friends’ attempt to “save” him by having him confess his sins to a priest will have no affect on his behavior. As Mr. Kernan said about the priest: "If he doesn’t like it….he can…do the other thing. I’ll just tell him my little tale of woe. I’m not such a bad fellow---" Pitiful! I feel sorry for his wife, who seems to have her act together, but it’s a shame that she basically tolerates her husband’s idiocy. Just because he doesn’t beat her doesn’t mean that he’s worth being married to… Early 20th century Dublin is certainly portrayed as a very frustrating time and place in which to live.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
I would have to agree with Lindsay that Mr. Kernan is relatively content with his life the way it is. He is totally unmotivated to change his behaviors. He is just a simple man who works drinks and sleeps while his wife takes care of his family.
ReplyDeleteA Mother
If you want to talk about a controlling mother here you go. She was a very controlling woman when it came to her daughter Kathleen. In the beginning she was a single girl and in search of a husband. Mr. Kearney was an older man who had an established life and was doing well for himself. She really didn’t marry the man because she loved him. She married him to shut her friends up which I found to be a weird and crazy reason to marry someone. I guess she had to do what she had to do. When it came time for her daughter to partake in the concert a greedy side of her came out. The whole confrontation with Mr. Holohan was more than unladylike. The funny thing is that she spent a good bit of money on her daughters dress and invitations to her friends and didn’t even get paid the full amount. Maybe if she had some patience things would have worked out. If that were my mother I would be embarrassed and mortified. I didn’t quite understand why the money was such a big deal when the concert wasn’t even over yet. Something I also found interesting was that Mr. Kearney stood there and let his wife act like a fool. She embarrassed the family and for the most part ended Kathleen’s musical career.
Grace
Another one of Joyce’s drunken Irishmen that drink’s his money away. Mr. Kernan had an accident while he was drinking at the bar. He fell down a flight of stairs and got knocked out cold. Unfortunately he bit a piece of his tongue off as well during the fall. I’d imagine that that would hurt something fierce. I wondered why they called the policeman instead of a doctor or something of the sort if he was just lying there motionless. Once they awakened him and got him upright his friend Mr. Power stepped in and told the police officer that he would get him home. I wondered if the friends of Mr. Kernan needed to trick him into going to the Jesuit Church instead of just asking him. I don’t think he will ever change because the theme of a drunken unhappy father/ husband comes about a good bit in Joyce’s stories. Like in Counterparts with Farrington and his son saying he’ll say a Hail Mary for him in hopes of change and yet no change. I feel bad for Mrs. Kernan that she has to put up with his alcoholism and I found it sad that she has to search through his pockets for any money her husband has left from the drinking for the family needs.
Jonathan Taylor
A mother
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed how ironic this story was. Mrs. Kearney was a woman who thought that she was above most people, and felt like her daughter was more important than the other artistes. What she didn’t realize was that she single handedly ruined her daughters career and caused such a seen that everyone looked down on her. She seemed more preoccupied with getting her daughter paid than allowing her daughter to make a name for herself as an artiste in Dublin. I think she meant well, and thought she was doing what was best for her daughter by getting her full amount as stated in the contract, but felt that she was crossed by Mr. Holohan and wouldn’t let him get away with it. Unfortunately she blew her daughters chances of making a name for herself and disgraced herself.
Grace
This story was pretty good. I enjoyed how it started. I felt like it held my attention and I thought it was funny how they couldn’t get Mr. Kernan to wake up until they gave him more alcohol. I also found it very unique how James Joyce wrote the dialogue for Mr. Kernan after he had bitten a chunk out of his tongue as if he couldn’t pronounce certain syllables. This gave me a more colorful picture of Mr. Kernan. It was also clever how the men came together and tried to coax Mr. Kernan into wanting to go to the Jesuits and try to change his ways. Although Mr. Kernan decided to go listen to the priest it was evident that he most likely wasn’t going to change his ways since he wouldn’t light the candles. Like many of the other Joyce stories the abrupt ending was a little annoying. I would have like to see Mr. Kernan’s reaction afterward.
I agree with much of what Lindsay had to say about Grace. I also thought that the beginning was very good but after a while the action slowed down and you came to find out who Mr. Kernan really was. I also felt bad for Mr. Kernan's wife. It said that after 3 weeks she found the life of a wife irksome and before she would even have the possibility of getting out she became pregnant which pretty much leaves her stuck with Mr. Kernan forever, and as with many of Joyce's other characters... paralyzed.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lindsay regarding to the story "Grace" as falling down the stairs while drunk is anything but graceful. The same could be said for Mr. Kernan as a person is rather pathetic and has trouble admitting that he has a drinking problem.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"A Mother"
ReplyDeleteIf I was Kathleen, I would be extremely angry with my mother, Mrs. Kearney, and disappointed with the fact that she is my mother. I found Mrs. Kearney to be the most egotistical, controlling, and self centered character in "The Dubliners" thus far. She has a decent and stable life with a good husband and children. Yet she married her husband out of spite of her friends and she somehow manages to single-handedly destroy Kathleen's career as a musician before it even started. If you ask me Mrs. Kearney only has good intentions for herself.
"Grace"
As I mentioned in my earlier comment I found this story to be the opposite of graceful. This story while bordering on the boring side did hold my interest for two reasons. The first being that Mr. Kernan is a drunken fool which is extremely ironic conssidering that the title of the story is "Grace". The second reason this story kept my attention was the feelings of annoyance and anger at the other characters in the story who tried to convert Mr. Kernan to a different religion to get him to stop drinking. Clearly they did not know much about alcholoism because a disease like that cannot be cured by simply converting religions.
A Mother
ReplyDeleteThis is a story where I sympathize with the character of Kathleen. Her mother was embarrassing and out of control. In the beginning we learned that she only married her husband to shut her friends up and not out of love. I didn’t find that very acceptable and don’t understand why she did it, but I guess that was what society was like back then. When Kathleen found out she was going to be playing in a concert, her reaction was odd. Her mother cared more about this than she did. Actually, her mother cared more about the money part and a greedy side also came out in her. Nothing about the concert was up to her standards. When she found out that her daughter was not going to be paid the full amount, her mother lost it. She acted in unladylike manners while her husband just stood back and watched it happen. Kathleen can now say good-bye to her career because of her mother and her craziness.
Grace
This story was just a disaster. It was ironic because there was nothing graceful about this story. His wife did not even want to be with someone like him but she got stuck with him forever. He was a man who expected things to be done for him when he did not do anything for others. Mr. Kernan was also a drunk in Ireland’s society who was surrounded by people who I would consider clueless. No one knew what to do when he fell down the stairs, drunk. Not even the police officer knew what to do. Afterwards, his friends came up with a “plan” to convert him. Back then, nobody really understood alcoholism and how it’s a disease that can’t be cured by someone else.
In response to Jonathan Taylor’s comment, it was weird and crazy for someone to marry someone for this reason. As he said, “she had to do what she had to do”. She did act very unladylike and did not handle the situation well at all. She was just upset because she spent more money on the invitations for others and her daughters dress than she had received. It was funny that her husband just stood there and watched his wife act this absurd.
Also, it was sad that Mrs. Kernan had to search through her husband pockets for money that he had left from drinking for the families needs. This is another typically story of James Joyce and his drunken characters who care more about drinking than their family.
The title “A Mother” is ironic because really she isn’t a very good mother. She is trying to capitalize on her daughter’s talents. She is so interested in the money that her daughter was going to make by doing the concerts that she forgets to think about other people and their situations. The men promised to get the money after the concert was over but Mrs. Kearney wanted things her way. She isn’t very understanding. She is trying to make up for her daughters absences before the committee realizes it. She is one of those moms that live through the life of their daughters. She taught Kathleen the same instrument exactly how she how learned it but she wasn’t able to make it big.
ReplyDelete“Grace” was a story of a man who has recently lost his respect in the business world. He is trying to make up for it by drinking in a bar. One of his acquaintance‘s takes him back home. In the accident Tom Kernan has injured his tongue. Alcohol brings only more worries, it doesn’t take them away but the characters in Dubliner’s don’t seem to understand that. They need to be more proactive but instead they choose to ignore their families and drink. In response with Kayla, these people think that converting is the response to Alcoholism but it's not. Religion is a good foundation to have to be able to fight the addiction but it isn't the only way to go. People back than probably didn't think drinking alcohol everyday was even a disease.
The Mother:
ReplyDeleteI kind of liked this story. Mrs. Kearney seems like the kind of person which if things don’t go her way, well then it’s no way at all. I thought it was funny how she said that she respected her husband in the same way she respected the post office. That statement right there goes to show that there is not really any emotion what so ever between Mrs. Kearney and her husband. She also seems to be a very pushy woman. She was all about getting that money for the performance that her daughter was going to do. Her daughter wasn’t even worried about the money, she just wanted to get up on that stage and do what she loves to do. But now that her mother acted the way she did, she pretty much ruined her daughter’s career. I would be so ashamed and embarrassed if that was my mother.
Grace:
I also liked this story. Right from the beginning it grabbed my attention. I was kind of curious at first as to what was going on with the people who he was with at the bar and why they weren’t there anymore. I also thought that his friend Mr. Power was a suspicious man. The way the beginning of the story made him out to be, seemed like he could be somewhat of a not so good friend. But in the end I found out that I was wrong. All Mr. Power and his friends were trying to do was set up an intervention; they were just trying to help. They ended up taking him to the church, trying to help him find some faith. But you can’t really cure an alcoholic. Alcoholism is a disease which many people cannot overcome. But it was nice to see that his friends really did care about him, and wished for him to get better. But sometimes you just can’t fix everything.
I agree with what Richey and Lindsay had to say about Grace. I thought that the beginning of the story was an attention grabber. But as the story continued on, things just became a little dry. Toward the end of the story, it didn’t have my attention as well as in the beginning.
Comment,
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lori that Mrs Kearney is a pushy woman, although she ruined her daughter career, what she did was acceptable to me.the committee was applying double standards and that needed to be corrected.
Mother,
I find this story interesting. I like the character of Mr Kearney because he is a responsible dad who plans for the future. He is already saving for her two daughters dowry. It seems also that she commands respect from his wife.This is a rich family and i don't think Mrs Kearney was after the 8 guineas but rather making sure that her daughter was given her due right. The contract as already binding and i think she could have let her perform on the last concert. Her daughter loves music and that was a bad way to end her career. I feel bad for her.
Glory
Mr Kernan has friends who are always there when all is good. They spend the money together at the bar but when it comes to helping him, no one goes to his rescue. One of his true friend Mr power makes sure that he gets back home safely after he falls from the stairs and he is injured. Most of his friends suggests that he should confess his sins to the priest hoping that he will change his behavior into a good man.
A Mother
ReplyDelete--I found “cbarke2’s” comment about A Mother to be very interesting. I am disappointed in Mrs. Kearney’s decision to get married just to spite her friends, no wonder she was such a miserable person! I don’t think she was entirely self-centered; I just think that her determination in trying to better her daughter spun out of control. She was so preoccupied with her daughter’s payment, that she did not stop to think that maybe Kathleen wanted to play the piano for the love of music and nothing else. So I do have to disagree with cbarke2’s comment of “if you ask me Mrs. Kearney only has good intentions for herself”.
I am sympathetic towards the Kearneys; I think they were taken advantage of by Mr. Holohan and company. They should have been paid in-full. I don’t believe that the men in charge were actually intending to pay them the full amount.
Grace
I did not understand why this story was called “Grace”; I thought it had something to do with sermon at the end. Apparently it was supposed to come from the phrase “fall from grace”. Mr. Kernan seemed like a better father than others we have seen throughout the Dubliners- at least he didn’t beat his children. I do not believe that Mr. Kernan will be changed by Mr. Power’s plan for transformation. The end of the story seemed strange to me- nothing like a normal Catholic mass. I believe Joyce was trying to poke fun at the Catholic religion.
Lindsay, I liked the way you linked the Grace of God with the graceless fall Mr.Kernan took down the flight of steps. The fall itself seems to be a metaphor for the actually story being told of Mr. Kernan falling out of grace with God. It feels as if both “A Mother” and “Grace” are setting up for the centerpiece of the collection “The Dead”, in that each story talks of the last gasps of desperation before a final reckoning. In “A Mother”, Mrs. Kearney is trying to define her life by living vicariously through her daughter, Kathleen. The desperate attempt is futile because her daughter is only beginning her career and her mother is demanding treatment given performers that would be much more established. Mr. Kernan’s fall perfectly symbolizes his lack of faith and falling out of God’s grace but the entire story tells of the desperation in trying to convince Kernan to join his friends in their beliefs, although they too are a bit misguided. The misconstrued faith of his friends hints at the corruption of faith by the Catholic Church and is reinforced by the Jesuit priest conversing in business terms to the group and McCoy’s accusation that “Jesuits cater to the uppers classes”. These two stories seem to setup the epic closer in the collection, “The Dead” and crystallize Joyce’s feelings of Irish culture, the Catholic Church, England, and the strange dynamic between the three.
ReplyDeleteComment
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lindsay about being a sad situation that the daughter in “A Mother” being in a helpless situation. I felt bad for her as well but liked the statement that was said about her hopefully being pushed to get out of Dublin. In “Grace,” I liked Lindsays comment about Mr. Kearnan being a pitiful character in his ways. She described him very well.
A Mother
Mrs. Kearney was a very controlling woman that pretty much controlled her daughter in every aspect. I also thought Mrs. Kearney was an odd character for marrying her husband just so she would stop hearing her friends rag on her. It was taken by me however, that Mr. Kearney had already made a successful life for himself. I was kind of torn on Mrs. Kearney’s decision to confront Mr. Holohan on her daughters payments for the concert. I felt it wasn’t right that she wasn’t getting paid, but completely pulling her out and ruining her career seemed maybe a bit extreme.
Grace
Another drunk story from Joyce, Mr. Kearnan had an accident that cost him a good portion of his life. He fell down a flight of stairs when he was drinking and became paralyzed. I feel awful for Mrs. Kearnan and the rest of the family for having to put up with the alcoholism and now his paralysis. Mr. Kearnan seems to have some pretty loyal friends that care about him, and he takes them for granted, which is pretty upsetting as well.
A Mother
ReplyDeleteI agree, Johnny, that I think mom was living vicariously through her daughter. She admitted marrying more for convenience and what he could provide-not love. Although she was definitley controling (as was obvious to everyone here!), her motives are questionable. Yes, she wanted status for her daughter, acted as if she was 'above' the social status of the rest of the artistes, but isn't it often true that those who are insecure and weak are outwardly agressive and "over the top" when it comes to appearances? She wanted to be more than she was, wanted more for her daughter, and it all was out of control. I think it was a subconscious effort to help her daughter break away from the life she had. She was so involved it sort of scared me to think that I can have those tendancies sometimes with my own daughter! But I know NEVER to this extent! I'm going to be careful from now on.
Grace
I have to agree that the title has more to do with falling from Grace with God than Mr. Kernan's physical behavior. From the start, he is presented as being a protestant, hadn't been in a church for over 20 years. He drank his earnings just like most of Joyce's other characters. I don't know that his "friends" were scheming against him, but truly trying to help him fly right and straighten up. I like to think positive and look for the good in people and I guess I am doing that with this story. Rather than suspect, I like to think they were trying to "show him the right way" which for these men, was the way to Catholicism. I don't think Kernan is going to change. His adamant refusal to light a candle at the church represents his rejection of the faith, but he was going along with it because of the pressure from his "friends." He is stuck, but he was putting on a good show for his wife and the men involved. All Irish men are not worthless and stuck and these men may truly be ones who have avoided the destruction of drinking away their earnings. It isn't a bad thing.
Winnie, I like your post about mother. It is pretty funny that mother is the name of the first story, because she really is not a good one. She’s not really a good wife either. She is just another member of Dublin, living a fairly poor life. Instead of trying to make money off her own merits she pushes her daughter and ends up sabotaging her.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I did not like Mrs. Kearny, I did like the story. It was nice to see one of James Joyce’s stories having something in it. After the last three stories it was really refreshing for someone to be doing something, and at least trying to get somewhere in life. I also liked watching Mrs. Kearny keeps pushing for her daughter to get paid, like she was some big time star. Another thing that we talked about in class that I found humorous was that Mrs. Kearny wanted her daughter to become big, so that she would have status in the community. Instead, the way she conducts herself trying to get her daughter paid actually ruins her social status and makes her look horrible in front of the community.
As for Grace, it was not as good. It was still a lot better than last week’s stories, but I did not like it as much as Mother. The introduction was pretty funny. A guy following downstairs and getting knocked out. Then a police officer comes and does not care, until some guy shows up and tries to help making the officer look bad. That part was funny. I also like the idea that the guy had fallen from grace, but won’t really be saved. He is a drunken fool, going to a ridiculous church where an accountant dude is a preacher. It is fairly ridiculous all in all, good stuff.
A Mother
ReplyDeleteI liked this story because it was easy to follow and kept me interested unlike many of the other stories. I agree with jopdycke in the fact that I was also torn between whether Mrs. Kearny made the right decision to fight with Mr. Holohan. I’m not sure if her daughter would have got full payment but I’m sure after Mrs. Kearny made a huge seen that definitely made the decision of not paying her a lot easier for Mr. Holohan. Also by completely pulling her daughter out of the second act it ruined any chance her daughter had for making a career for herself. However if I were put in that situation and I wasn’t getting paid I’m not sure what I would do so maybe Mrs. Kearny was right in the way she reacted.
Grace
In Grace we see the reoccurring theme of a drunk who drinks away all their money and would rather get drunk then spend time with his family. I agree with Kayla in the fact that his friends were very good friends to put up with Mr. Kernan and they wanted to help him in the best possible way, but they just didn’t know how to help him properly. They thought converting him would solve all of his problems but what they didn’t understand is that alcoholism is a disease and it requires more attention and work than being converted. Also the fact that they never really flat out told Mr. Kernan why they were taking him to the church and why he needed to be changed wasn’t going to help anything. How was Mr. Kernan supposed to change if he didn’t know anything needed to be changed in the first place?
In a Mother, Mrs. Kearney agreed with Mr. Holohan that her daughter Kathleen, who is a really talented pianist, should play at the concerts. Mrs. Kearney told Mr. Holohan that he should make a contract that would ensure eight guineas for Kathleen’s performance in the four concerts. Mrs. Kearney also agreed to help plan the event and organize the program. There is a poor attendance during the first two concerts and this disturbs Mrs. Kearney. The third concert is cancelled because they felt that if they cancelled the third concert then more people would come to the last concert. The fourth concert started off bad from the beginning for Mrs. Kearney. She wanted her daughter to be paid in full and Mr. Holohan and Mr. Fitzpatrick kept dodging the issue until they finally agreed to pay Kathleen half of the amount before the concert started and that the rest will come during intermission. During intermission Mr. Fitzpatrick tells Mrs. Kearney that they will pay her daughter the rest of the amount after their next meeting. This enrages Mrs. Kearney who angrily takes her daughter out of the concert hall, ruining her chances of becoming a star.
ReplyDeleteI agree with jopdycke that Mrs. Kearney was very controlling and wanted her daughter to do everything her way. She also ruined her daughters career by pulling her out of the concert.
A Mother
ReplyDeleteIn this story Mrs Kearney approaches life without any real feelings. She marries her husband just go get married, not for love, because she does anything just to get it done, not to feel any emotion. Respect is a big issue for her and that is one thing she really cares about. Everything she does is not really about what she likes or cares about, it is all to receive a good appearance and social status. Mrs. Kearny was definetly living vicariously through her daughter like many of us have said. She wanted to give her daughter status, and was upset when she didn’t get paid for the concert, but I do not know if she should have confronted Mr. Holohan about it, she had very questionable motives and reasonings for her actions. This was not one of my favorite stories so far, because I did not feel for Mrs. Kearney at all. Even thought the story was fairly easier to follow than most of the other ones, the whole story I just did not like her because she had no emotion at all, she just wanted the fame and fortune. I believe she did love her daughter very much, even though she didn’t love her husband, but she did not show her love in the right ways.
A mother
ReplyDeleteThis story is about a mother whose daughter is a pianist and is involved in a concert. Mrs. Kearney thought that she and her daughter were the best, but really no one wanted to work with Mrs Kearney because of her strong personality. I thought that Mrs. Kearney embodies all of the characteristics of a stage mom. You can tell that she is a control freak with her daughter’s career. Mrs Kearney spent her whole life thinking she was better than everyone else, and probably thinks her daughter is better than everyone else too.
I agree with Jonathon, that Mrs. Kearney’s reasons for marrying her husband were not the best. It seems strange that she was not at all interested in love, but more having the title of ‘wife’. She also became a mother for a strange reason, simply because she was tired of being a wife. It just seems like Mrs. Kearney lacks a lot of emotion and feeling.
Grace
I enjoyed the descriptive language of this story. Also, the way Joyce wrote about the characters in the bar was comical. The police man was useless, while the bicyclist was the responsible, which is ironic. I don’t think the way the men tried to trick Mr. Kernan into going to the Jesuits will be effective. They seem to believe if they could just get him to go, whether he wanted to or not, they it would solve his alcohol problem, but he is probably going to go back to drinking anyways.
A Mother
ReplyDeleteI like this story more than other that we have read thus far. However reading this story made me think about the stow on TLC about stage moms. Mrs. Kearney is definately a stage mom. I feel bad that she embarrassed her daughter at the concert, but at the same time you almost think she did it for a good reason. Mrs. Kearney can be unethical, specially with the reasons why she married her husband, but I feel deep down she does everything for a reason
Grace.
This story was once again a story about alcoholism and Ireland, however this time around even though Mr. Kernan is an alcoholic he doesn't beat his wife or kid, but he does need help and he does spend his money instead of providing for his family. I agree with chelsey when His friends think that taking him to church, he is going to be saved. However, he is an alcoholic and the only person that can save him is himself.
“A Mother”
ReplyDeleteIn “A Mother,” an overbearing mother inadvertently ruins her daughter’s chance of success by trying to be involved too much. The daughter is an aspiring pianist and agrees to play in a four show concert. The beginning of the story made it seem like the mother was more into the daughter being in the concert than the daughter was. The mother appeared to be greedy when she learned about the amount of compensation the daughter would receive. Even the mother’s marriage in general wasn’t real as in the beginning of the story it states she only married her husband because of her friends instead of love. Kayla believed that her motives for marriage were just due to the society of Ireland at this time, but I disagree. I believe that this just sums up the mother’s personality opposed to the status of Ireland as a whole.
I am not to sure the mother’s overall intention of this story. Some angles made it appear that she was using this concert to solidify herself in a social standpoint. This appeared to be true when she bought tickets for her friends to come view the concert. Another angle made the mother appear to be actually trying to do what was best for her daughter. Regardless of her intentions, the way the mother handled the situation ruined any chance of her daughter getting work in a concert again. The men that hired the daughter were completely embarrassed by the way they were being treated by the mother and will probably not recommend her to anyone.
I agree with Lindsay that the daughter in "A Mother" will hopefully be motivated to get out of Dublin. Also with the fact that the mother was powerless and the husband didn't even attempt to help. I think the title "Grace" has something to do with the religious factor of the story, and the irony of falling down the stairs being ungraceful.
ReplyDeleteA Mother
This story evoked conflicting feelings for me. Being a woman I did feel sympathetic for Mrs. Kearny and her daughter because she was so helpless in the mans world of early 20th century Dublin. She was trying so hard to be heard and no one had the time for her. Her husband didn't even really stand up for her (at least he came to stand by her side though). However, at the same time I felt annoyed by the fact that when doing a job you almost always get paid afterward, and she didn't even wait until the shows were over to find out if her daughter was going to get paid. This led me to believe she was hungry for money, and the money didn't even belong to her. Instead of showing the society her daughter couldn't be taken advantage of, all she showed them was that they never wanted to work with her again.
Grace
I did enjoy this story at the beginning, but it got increasingly more boring as it went on. I think a lot of the dialogue (while it may have been used to show the trickery of Mr. Kernan's friends) was unnecessary. I think Mr. Kernan was paralyzed by his alcoholism, but even more by the fact that he didn't see anything wrong with his life. The fact that he had to fall down the stairs, become unconscious, and bite off part of his tongue before someone told him to stop drinking shows that he doesn't have many people who care for him. I don't believe the Jesuits are going to help, because he does not want to be helped.
Alyssa Pearce
A Mother-
ReplyDeleteYou get the idea that Mrs .Kearney had no motivations or dreams growing up. For example, she married just to be married, not because she wanted a husband. I believe that now Mrs. Kearney is older she wishes she had gotten more out of life that is why she is living vicariously through her daughter, Kathleen. Somebody who did not have the faintest hint of what satisfaction was growing up, now has extreme craving for it. Mrs. Kearney wants her daughter to succeed since she did not succeed at anything when she was her daughter’s age. Even though Mrs. Kearney’s ways of getting what she wants now sometimes works, she usually ends up making herself angrier.
I do not have much opinion on Grace because I felt the story was only enjoyable in the beginning. I agree with Alyssa and Lindsey that the story was dry and became less and less interesting as the story dragged on.
Perhaps Mrs. Kearney should be referred to as a “Manager” instead of a “Mother.” I believe Kathleen is a talented artist but her mother is too overbearing to let her daughter’s skill show through. When it comes to the money side of Kathleen’s performances, Mrs. Kearney hounds Mr. Fitzpatrick and Mr. Holohan about the contract and money it comes off as very unprofessional- even though she is trying very hard to be just that. A mother trying to shine through her daughter and a daughter who wants to emerge from her mother’s shadow make this story interesting from Ireland’s point of view. When there is a small ray of light someone or something is there to snuff it out and corrupt it! Mr. Kernan’s story is another twisted tale of “Grace” or the fall from it. Here is a man who needs help and a positive change to turn his life around and his friends lead him in a misleading direction and confuse the message of God. I agree with Chelsey when she responded to Kayla- Mr. Kernan’s friends didn’t understand his alcohol problem. There effort to get him to church and “convert” him was not going to solve his problems, especially when the pastor was referring to God and faith like a business. Like Ireland, Mr. Kernan needs more attention and some TLC!
ReplyDeleteA mother,
ReplyDeleteThis story to me was a classic case of an overbearing mother trying worrying about her feelings more than her own daughters. The concerts were not run by the best of people, and Mrs. Kearney did however help it out quite a bit though. I do think however that Mrs. Kearney was too overambitious for her daughter to receive full payment before the show even started. All she was doing was creating hassle by requiring the money beforehand. Like most jobs nowadays, you do the work, then you get payed. She needed to just lay off and let the concert happen, and then worry about the money after. Even though I do think Mr. Holohan should have been better with the money, instead of basically telling her that he doesn’t have any right now until the intermission. Mrs. Kearney was not a good mother in ruining her daughters career, she is worried too much about her own image. She should have been more focused on her daughter playing and be more proud of her.
Comment,
I do not agree with Patricia’s thoughts about being Mrs. Kearney being taken advantage of. She basically worried about the wrong things, and should have just focused on her daughter more instead of trying to make a statement,
A Mother
ReplyDeleteI liked this story the best of the two. Mrs. Kearney was a very interesting character and for once wanted something, she wasnt held back by a nonchalant attitude. I agree with Kelly that she was definently a stage mom, with an overwhelming personality. Not only was she controlling over her daughter but her husband as well, he just follows her. I liked the ending because Mrs. Kearney got what she had coming to her. I felt a little bad for Kathleen but at the same time, even with a docile mother she is still and Dublin...and thusly doomed to lead an unsuccessful life.
Grace
The beginning was the best of all Joyce's stories so far. I agree with Lori that it definently grabs the readers attention right away. The rest of the story was rather uninteresting, partially becuase Joyce has written about drunks before. Even after hearing about it in class I still didnt like it. I had a problem keeping track of all the characters and reading between the lines of Joyce's writing. The only thing I liked in this story was the beginning, the rest just disapointed me.
A Mother
ReplyDeleteThis story was a very easy read compared to some of the other Dubliners stories which I really liked because I got a lot better understanding of the story. The mother in this story really doesn’t do a very good mothering job. She comes off as a mother using her daughter to get money, and doesn’t even really get what she sought out for. She wants to take advantage of the talents of her daughter and she is only being concerned about herself and her approach to get the money ends up ruining her name and leaves her daughter with no career. BUT, even though it is quite obvious Mrs. Kearney definitely made the wrong choice with her reactions toward her daughter’s situation I can’t say that if it were my child I wouldn’t want to get her money for her music. Maybe things just escalated but she didn’t intentionally mean to be so crazy, leading the readers to feel as if she was taking advantage of Kathleen.
Grace
This is just another story about another drunk in Dublin. There seems to be a lot of them. All Mr. Kernan wants to do is drink away his money instead of supporting his family. Luckily he has some friends that actually want to better him. They took him to a church because they thought by introducing him to this religion would make him want to change I guess. I honestly doubt he knows that his problem with drinking is at all serious, most alcoholics don’t know it. I don’t think Mr. Kernan will change, I just don’t think he really wants to. I don’t think his friends reaching out is going to help either because all they did was take him to this church, they need to express to him with words how they feel about his alcoholism. Also I don’t really feel bad about him falling down a flight of stairs or biting his tongue. In my eyes being that drunk and stupid to let himself get to that level of intoxication, he kind of deserves it.
Comment: I agree with jtaylo22 on the comments about Mrs. Kearney marrying just to get her friends off her back. She did not love Mr. Kearney. It is unfortunate that she did that because now she is a miserable woman for it.
Mrs. Kearney in “A Mother” was a very demanding person. She likes to take control of things around her. She wants to control her daughter, Kathleen life, and I think in some ways, she controls her husband too. I agree with Kayla that I sympathize with the character Kathleen. Her life is not her own life, but instead it’s the life her mother wants her to have. I think Mrs. Kearney was trying to realize her own dreams that never succeed through her daughter. She made her go to a convent to study French and music; and decided for her daughter a music career. I understand that Mrs. Kearney may be demanding because she wants things to go her way, which in this case, the way that she thinks would be the best for Kathleen. It is kind of sad, because Mr. Holohan does not do anything really constructive to the concert; and if it had not been the effort of Mrs. Kearney at first, the concert may turn out worse. However, I think Mrs. Kearney was not practical and did not handle situations well. She ruined Kathleen’s career.
ReplyDeleteMr. Kernan does not seem like a likeable person. He is rather stubborn and also irresponsible as a husband and father. He drinks way too much and do not bring money back home. I do agree that his wife Mrs. Kernan is an active and practical middle-aged woman. She would normally get money out of her husband’s pockets while he is drunk. I feel kind of sympathy for her that she still has to stay in the marriage even though she did not enjoy it since the beginning. But I guess that was the most practical thing to do as a woman at that time. Things could be so so much different nowadays.
"A Mother"
ReplyDeleteThis story, I thought, gave a realistic view on the social limits of a women in Ireland in the early 20th century. Not just Ireland but many other places as well. Being lady like was to bluntly shut your mouth and do what you're told. Which could've easily been linked to why she was used and why the contract was not paid. I saw Mrs. Kearney as a mother who understood this way of life and was trying to make sure her daughter wasn't treated like that. Although towards the end I realized that she was also kind of selfish. She never even once asked her daughter if she'd like to play in the concert or think of her daughter's feelings when she was making a scene. I believe Mrs. Kearney was in the right because they wouldn't have paid her daughter if she finished the performance or not. I understand that you are paid when the job is done, but I wouldn't have trusted the men either seeing how many times Mrs. Kearney was blowed off about the payment. What I didn't understand is why Mr. Kearney didn't stick up for his daughter as well? Also the Kearneys didn't need the money that bad so why would you throw a temper tantrum and ruin your daughter's future in music in Dublin? So I felt Mrs. Kearney was right but she went about the wrong way with dealing with it.
"Grace"
This story was pretty good in the beginning. I thought it was gonna be a mystery in finding the two men who were with him or if they were the ones who pushed him down the stairs, but it just turned out to be one of those stories where you were hoping it comes to an end on the next page. This story dragged on and on having no point in having the reader pay attention. The whole story was pretty much Mr. Powers and friends trying to get Mr. Kernan to renounce his sins and ask for forgiveness from god. Joyce could've easily summed that up in one page instead of 17 pages of nonsence.
Response to Lindsay Charnofsky's A Mother
I totally agree with Lindsay on this story. I too had sympathy for Mrs. Kearney because she is a women and it was hard for a women to stand up for herself and not being ridiculed for it. But like I said she was right but she went the wrong way about trying to fix it, and it was pointless for the father to be there because he did nothing. So at the end of the story my sympathy shifted from Mrs. Kearney to her daughter. How was she going to perform in Dublin ever again with this reputation now?
A Mother
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of the story, I felt for Mrs. Kearny. To me, she appeared just like a woman with high expectations and wouldn't settle for any less. I felt like Mr. Kearny was a respectable man - but definitely rather boring. I think it is important and good how great of a father he is and how he is a dependable man. I thought that Mrs. Kearny was a really smart woman and she had been very educated and that's why she strove for the best. The family life seemed good because he sent the daughter to a convent to learn, and he took them on vacations for weeks at a time. Then she started to seem like she was really into the amount of money that her daughter was going to be making for the concert she was going to be doing. I thought that she should have just been excited that her daughter was going to have this opportunity and realize that is was mostly based on word of mouth. I thought it was rather ridiculous that she spent all that money to make her daughters dress look fabulous and at the same time I think that my mom would have done the same thing and being ridiculous is sometimes a great thing. I think she was definitely starting to act like a stage mom at this point and that she should have thought about hurting her child's reputation. I didn't really understand why she freaked out and if that was my mom I think I would have been really embarrassed. I thought that she shouldn't have been so ridiculous and should have just enjoyed the show. I bet she won't be invited back to the concert hall and I can totally see why Mr. Holohan wouldn't want to. I wondered what Mr. Kearny really thought about the entire situation.
A Mother
ReplyDeleteI felt bad for the daughter because her mother ruined all her chances to perform in Dublin. Mrs. Kearney should have thought about her daughters well being more in the story. I didn't like how she acted towards her husband either, she was a very demanding woman to everyone. i feel it would be in the daughters best interest to leave Dublin so that she is able to pursue her career. This story wasn't my favorite of the two we read for this week. I agree with Kaitlin D. about what she had to say dealing with the mother.
Grace
This story was a great story that had my attention the whole way through as I was reading. Alcoholism is a tough issue for families to face, so I felt bad for all the people involved with trying to help Mr. Kernan. I do not think church was going to help him getting better just for the simple fact that he was already too far gone with his alcoholism. I was upset by his character because he did not provide for his family. Although this story was about the same as the other stories, it had my interest!
As our reading of Joyce’s Dubliners comes to an end, I’ve begun to piece together several overlying themes. The more I analyze these stories, the more I believe James was making a political statement. Yes, the theme of paralysis is apparent in every story, but there is also a theme of warning and prediction.
ReplyDeleteI believe Joyce is against the Irish fight for independence. Through the use of several characters who’s inadequacies ruin their respective lives, Joyce tries to warn Ireland of what is to come. “A Mother,” is the best illustration of this theme. I agree with Richey when he/she points out that in trying to do what was best for her daughter, Mrs. Kearney actually makes the situation worse, the classic plight of Ireland.
While the Irish plight was played out over the next century, Joyce prophetically warns his people to be careful in the way they go about making change. While patriots an heroes, Michael Collins and the IRA made strategic blunders for the Irish. In setting their sights so narrowly on independence, they let their countrymen to the North remain under British rule, furthering Irish struggle and animosity, Up until recently, neither the Irish economy nor the Irish people were able to slip out of the sorrow and depression they found after the fight for independence. Much like Mrs.Kearney ruining the show for her moderately talented daughter, the Irish patriots ruined true independence for the citizens.
I could understand what Brittany was saying about Mrs. Kearny living vicariously through her daughter. But - I don't think that she didn't have joys in life and that wasn't necessarily unhappy. I think that she just wanted a better life and more enjoyable life for her daughter. But, I definitely think she will have just has high standards for her daughter as she did for herself - if not higher. I think she is just an overbearing mother and she doesn't see it as a problem at all.
ReplyDelete"A Mother"
ReplyDeleteI thought this story was kind of weird. It is about a mother who thinks her daughter Kathleen is an excellent piano player and because that is what her reputation is in Dublin she enters her into a local concert. She first writes out a contract making sure she gets paid, and then that is all she asks about the entire story. It seems Kathleen's mother is more worried about her daughter getting paid then how she actually does. She threatens Mr. Holohan that if she does not get paid in full she will not preform. Because of this they both get talked bad about and her aggressive conduct is criticized. The mom doesn't seem to care how well her daughter did, she only seems to care about the money.
"Grace"
I did not really like this story. I was kind of confused and I did not really understand the significance of some things like for example at the end when Mr Kernan finally agrees to join the catholic church retreat under one condition; that he does not light any candles as part of the service because he doesn't believe in magic. I don't understand what exactly is magic that he is talking about. I sort of just thought the enitre story had no point to it and did not really make very much sense. I also didn't really understand why Joyce put in the part about him falling down the stairs in a pub.
Richey,
I agree with you when you said that the mom in "A Mother" ruined her daughter's chances of having a good career because of how she acted with the money situation. I never really thought about how her mom affected her career I was more focused on how selfish her mom was.
A Mother
ReplyDeleteThis why my favorite story of the two because it was really easy to read. I think Mrs. Kearney is all about status in this story; it kind of makes me sick. She gets married only because her friends say she is getting old and should get married. She is not even in love she just marries a guy to do it because he has money and treats her well. She ruins her daughter’s career because she is so stubborn. Mrs. Kearney is someone that I would not want to meet!
Grace
I agree with Alyssa on this one because it was really interesting in the beginning and then the story just kept dragging on for the rest of it. I think that Mr. Kernan is defiantly a drunk that has a serious problem. He has to act like a total idiot before someone has to tell him to quit drinking. I think the Jesuits are not going to be able to him Mr. Kernan because he is pretty much set in his ways. He doesn’t see anything wrong in his life and that is horrible. I also think the Jesuits in this book, are really cocky who really don’t do anything really productive to help people. I hate that Joyce portrays most Irish men in this book drunks because there are a lot of people back then who were not. My granddad’s father was born in Ireland and was really successful and wasn’t a drunk.
Nick Cheyney
A Mother
ReplyDeleteThis short story was my favorite of the two. One, because it was a easy read which made it more enjoyable to read because i wasn;t sitting there trying to analyze it the whole time and could enjoy it and two, it was a little different perspective of a dubliner. It was about a demanding mother, Mrs. Kearney, who pretty much gets whatever she wants in life. First, she marries just to be married and not for love, second, she is so worried about her appearnace to the world that she buys tickets for people to see her daughter. Then helps with the concert and demands her daughters full payment which then leads to her to embarassing her daughter and ruining her career. I feel bad for her daughter very much because she didn;t even want what her mother wanted for her. I don't necessarily thinks shes in it for the money like her mother is. This story I believe portrays the life of Dubliners wanting to portray a upper class status and and appearance.
Grace
The first thing i thought of when reading this is the expression "falling from grace" literally. The story started out with a man falling down a flight of stairs and biting his tongue. Then it shows how the fall leads him to Mr. Power helping him fing "grace" shall we see by trying to help him get better. This story in all portrays him as a fallen man who is getting help through the catholic church to get better. I believe this story can portray the difficulty of religious life in Ireland because in the story Mr. Kernan did everything but light the candles which is very important in the catholic church. Also I believe it symbolizea how all dubliners are searching for grace whether its through alcohol or religion.
I agree with Nicole's comment above of how I would do anything for my daughter. Although, it might not be fully for her daughter I do believe she wnated the best for her and tried to help her career but unforunately ruined it.
"A Mother"
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with chappell's line of thinking about this story. At first I was behind Mrs. Kearney when she was trying to get Kathleen's full pay, because I feel like they were getting ripped off with the little sum of money they first got. I agree with chappell that as the story went on, Mrs. Kearney's behavior did seem to get ridiculous and she came off as very stubborn and selfish. I feel at some point she should have just made a compromise and taken the best she could get, but obviously she wanted everything promised to her. She most certainly ruined Kathleen's career. I feel like nobody would have a problem working with Kathleen herself, but since they know that Mrs. Kearney will always be right there with her, it's not even worth it. Mrs. Kearney is just a typical, over-bearing mother and I really pitied Kathleen.
"Grace"
This wasn't my favorite story because it was somewhat hard for me to follow. As I was reading it, I thought it was so stupid that they were trying to get Mr. Kernan to become religious, because it obviously wasn't going to work. His heart doesn't seem into the matter and I bet the whole time they were listening to the Jesuit priest talk he just wanted to go to the pub and have a pint. The priest was also a little strange because he talked about the religion and faith like they were matters of business, which really didn't sit well with me. This whole book in general hasn't really portrayed the Catholic faith in the best of ways, but that's just Joyce's spin on it, I guess.
- A Mother
ReplyDeleteThis was sort of one of those " what's your point Joyce" story i thought. I thought that this was sort of true in the real world that this daughter's mother looked a bit "controlling" the situation and not really letting her make her own decisions. Mrs. Kearney's daughter was "hired" to play at a concert and she accepted to play at a price offer given to her. But when Mr. Holohan doesn't agree to pay her for what ever reason at the price originally decided on, Mrs. Kearney starts going at him and arguing with him about it while her daughter doesn't really care that much about the money. I sort of agree with what other students in English Two are saying about their "relationship" being torn and the mother slightly "over reacting" and "making a huge seen" at the concert about this payment. I think it should be up to the daughter to decide what's good for her and what's not, after all... she is the one playing on stage and her mother isn't her manager.
- Grace
Yet again, another one of Joyce's drinking stories involving a "alcohol problem". This time a guy injures himself and not his family (physically, that is). He does hurt his family emotionally by spending money and time away from them and with his "friends" at the bar(s). I sort of felt sorry (yet again) for him and his family mostly because of this "alcoholism" that he has and not being with his family. I agree with Michelle saying that "his friends were trying to help him and by bringing him to church was to help show him the right way to Catholicism" I don't know that much about Catholicism (i am Jewish) or how it can help/hurt but i can't see how it can hurt him. I kind of liked this story equally along with "A Mother". For once both stories are actually "okay" and not horrible.
A Mother
ReplyDeleteI don't really know how to react to Mrs. Kearney's decision to cut her daughter off from playing period. I do understand that money was the issue, but greed may also have played a small role.I agree with the comments of others in that if Mrs. Kearney had been requesting the money from a different position, one of higher power or respect, she may not have been taken advantage of. But forget about the exact amount of money, Mrs. Kearney's daughter was making money and regardless of how much it was, she was making it doing something she loved. It is pretty rare to be able to make money doing something you love, so despite how big of an issue money may have been, it is just sad and stupid that Mrs. Kearney killed her daughter's chances with playing the concerts. maybe Kathleen would have been happy continuing to play, regardless of the price. I feel that Mrs. Kearney, with the lack of a real relationship with her husband, and her controlling attitude with her daughter, just has her priorities mixed up. She obviously cares little about her daughter's feelings and she doesn't even seem to acknowledge that she may be ruining her daughter's chance at happiness. Once again, Joyce knows how to be depressing.
I agree with what you say Christine, about the religion really making no difference in Mr. Kernan's life. Not that religion can't change people, but you have to open your heart and have an attitude that is open to faithfulness and change. This guy was just a drunk and he was obviously blind to how serious his problem was. I have some friends like that back in my hometown.. I have seen people be completely blind to their alcoholism and it is pretty sad. At first I had pity for Mr. Kernan but he just ignored advice from everyone and seemed content with his life at the bottom of the bottle.
ReplyDelete-A Mother
ReplyDeleteThis story wasn't too bad. It was more interesting than a lot of the other ones. It was a stupid move on Mrs. Kearney's part to remove her daughter from the concert. She ruined her daughters career, even though she is an excellent musician, and she did not get fully paid. She should of just let her daughter have the spotlight to start her career. Instead she ruined it. She needs to quit thinking about herself and her status in society so much and start thinking about people closer to her.
-Grace
I did not like this story at all. It was really boring, but that's not saying much with this book. I understood the part with him falling down the stairs and he had no friends around to help him out. But then I got confused with the part at the church when Mr. Powers is trying to convince Mr. Kernan to become Catholic. I thought it was really random. And the priest was really odd. Priests should not act like businessmen in my book. I just did not enjoy this story.
-I can agree with Thomas for the most part. I think that greed was flowing through her, but she should of just let the money thing go for the moment. They said they would of paid her at the meeting next week. Her relationship with her daughter and husband are horrible, all because of her attitude with life. Her daughter probably would of went far, but has no chance now.
A Mother
ReplyDeleteI found it sad that the Mrs. Kearney would rather marry for stability than for love. This mother seems to have many things wrong with her from the start. I could see how some would say the mother is controlling, pushy, and ruined her daughter’s career. However I can see how she just wanted her daughter to have the best and to be treated fairly. I would have handled the situations differently, and did not like how she handled the situations that she encountered. I felt bad for the family because they were caused a lot of embarrassment. I also do not understand why Kathleen did not do what she wanted to do instead of what her mother wanted her to do.
Grace
I felt this was a rather difficult read, and not very eventful. It included the subject of alcoholism which is throughout The Dubliners. I can see that Joyce continues his morbid and depressing topics about Ireland. Alcoholism was such a strong problem. I cannot help but feel sorry for the family that has to worry about their alcoholic father, and I feel sorry that the father cannot overcome his alcoholism. I believe that religion may have helped Mr. Kernan, if he himself had some faith.
I agree with Christine Gion, that Joyce does not seem to put a positive outlook on Catholicism. People’s beliefs at that time were very different than the modern ones today. It is easy to get a very different idea from The Dubliners. I agree that “Grace” was a harder story to follow. The priest may have not reached as many people in the clergy with his business like teaching. He may have needed a different approach in order to reach out to the troubled. We also see eye to eye about the story “The Mother”. I do indeed pity Kathleen and find that her mother is very overbearing.